Curse

kidochipark · Feb 24, 2012, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Ok, so yesterday I was at the final part of the eotn primary missions - the Great Destroyer.

So I went in with my party, with some heroes and some henchmen (because I don't have vast arrays of skills yet) and the dragon cut them through like paper.

Tried once... .twice... three times... didn't work.
Tried to switch my up skills... once, twice, three times - don't work.
Well after around 10 failed tries of experimenting I came to the conclusion that it was my hero armor (and of course the terrible henchmen default as well) that needed work.

At the end, I sought help from a guy named Anna II who helped me (and taught me a few things too - and that's what I really like about guild wars - a great helpful community).

I noticed that his heroes were perfectly placed - his 2 tankers were tanking away at the dragon, his magic users formed a concave around the boss and there was the healer in the back.

Is that just the regular AI for henchmen / heroes to get into that formation?

Does the hero armor really change the defense that much? My hero stats state that since they are lvl 20, they should have 60 armor for each part. Is that not enough?

Quaker · Feb 24, 2012, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidochipark

Is that just the regular AI for henchmen / heroes to get into that formation?

Not entirely. The tanks - melee characters - will automatically attack the "called" target. The spell casters and monks will stay at "spell casting" range, but if they were nicely spread out with the monk at the back, they were probably "flagged" there.
If you're not familiar with using the "flags" around the compass, I'd suggest you look it up on wiki. For example: http://www.guildwiki.org/Hero

Quote:

Does the hero armor really change the defense that much? My hero stats state that since they are lvl 20, they should have 60 armor for each part. Is that not enough?

The basic armor is max for they're class and level, but you can also add Runes and Insignias to boost their stats. Basically, you should equip your Heroes the same way you would equip a human player - that is, with appropriate and max Runes, Insignias, Weapons, skill bars, etc. If you are just using them with the default equipment and skills that they came with, they will be rather under-powered.

Schmerdro · Feb 24, 2012, 03:33 PM // 15:33

He probably just flagged the healer to stay back and set him/her to Avoid Combat. Since you were fighting very few enemies at a time, it may have seemed like all the heroes were in a formation, but they really weren't.

Heroes automatically upgrade their armor as they level up. So if your hero is level 20, then he/she has the maximum armor.
Perhaps you were referring to runes? Those can be bought at a Rune Trader and they give you various bonuses like higher attributes, more health, more energy, more armor, faster condition expiration etc. While they do help, they're not really required; for example, I got Legendary Guardian and Legendary Master of the North on some my characters whose heroes either had one attribute-boosting rune or nothing at all.

Skills have a far greater effect on the defensive capabilities of a hero than their armor or runes.

Tried and Triumphed · Feb 24, 2012, 03:36 PM // 15:36

The person who helped you probably individually flagged his or heros around the great destroyer. You can't do much about the hero armor in terms of upgrades other than runes/insignias (much like your own armor) so for the casters yours should be enough. The real problem you were probably running into is the composition of your heros you admitted to having a less than vast array of skills combatting the last boss of the most recent (albeit five years ago) expansion.

enter_the_zone · Feb 24, 2012, 04:34 PM // 16:34

The lack of party formations for hero/hench is one of my pet peeves with GW.

kidochipark · Feb 24, 2012, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Was the Great Destroyer the harder boss? Are there any other challenging situations such as this?

I felt like I jumped into eton wayy too early.. just fresh off the boat with beating the factions campaign... all of those missions were extremely hard for me to stay alive. I had to micro the crap out of everyone and use stupid methods to finish quests.

I was gonna take on nightfall next, but what do you guys think?

enter_the_zone · Feb 24, 2012, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Nightfall should be fine if you've completed EOTN. The mobs in EOTN are the hardest, followed by the afflicted in Factions. Also, EOTN without NF heroes, are you mad?

drkn · Feb 24, 2012, 04:57 PM // 16:57

The Great Destroyer was easy for me, but i was already well-equipped (in terms of properly runed heroes with proper skillbars, as well as my own experience and PvE-only skills, which are game-breaking). Pain Inverter and spirits were the only things needed there, apart of vast healing and protection.
Other end-game bosses were certainly much harder for me, given i wasn't experienced or properly prepared.

That said, yeah, the main issue is that you rushed into EotN a bit; it's designed as end-game content for those who already have beaten the main campaigns (or, at least, so it seems). It has pretty much no learning curve, the monsters are tougher and, in general, it's much more difficult than the regular campaigns, taking average level.
Given you're now semi-experienced after beating EotN, and you realise you need to work on your builds (including skills and bonuses from items, both for you and your heroes), you should do much better in Nightfall. However, i would suggest you going in chronological order now, that is Prophecies -> Factions -> Nightfall, unless you totally don't care about the overarching story of Guild Wars - NF contains some spoilers for previous campaigns, as well as some logically implied plot parts.

Spiritz · Feb 24, 2012, 05:20 PM // 17:20

usually the great destroyer isnt too hard - i do recall players having a harder time with cyndar ( the wurm boss you faced a quest or 2 previous.
Great destroyer - if you have pain invertor that can help alot , especially if he nukes your party when close formation.Ive had 1 hero survive and muyself an rest were dead and pain invertor did the trick and killed him easily - only recomended if your sucidal lol.

Shuby · Feb 24, 2012, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Just DONT interrupt the great destroyer and you should be ok.

kidochipark · Feb 24, 2012, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Nightfall should be fine if you've completed EOTN. The mobs in EOTN are the hardest, followed by the afflicted in Factions. Also, EOTN without NF heroes, are you mad?

Perhaps... perhaps.
Well I can say that it GOT me mad on so many occasions... especially with the Asurian's quests. God... I almost smashed my keyboard lol. I was like "This is fking impossiblE!!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

usually the great destroyer isnt too hard - i do recall players having a harder time with cyndar ( the wurm boss you faced a quest or 2 previous.
Great destroyer - if you have pain invertor that can help alot , especially if he nukes your party when close formation.Ive had 1 hero survive and muyself an rest were dead and pain invertor did the trick and killed him easily - only recomended if your sucidal lol.

I thought about it.. but I wanted to rush the storyline anyways... I did not like eotn to be honest.

Don't... even get me started... with cyndar.

'nuff said. :P

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuby

Just DONT interrupt the great destroyer and you should be ok.

lol I had to resort to using henchmen... and they ALWAYS interrupted him

And every time they did I was like:

Yea. I will do nightfall. Since most of you stated (I think all of you did though) that eotn was supposed to have the hardest missions I think I'm gaining confidence now lol.
ty for your replies~

Eevee11 · Feb 24, 2012, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuby

Just DONT interrupt the great destroyer and you should be ok.

Pretty much this, lol. I had to learn it the hard way. If you interrupt him he will use Enraged Blast, which knocks your party down and does pretty high damage. Combined with the burning and other stuff already going on, it can get overwhelming. I can usually kill him without setting my heros up in any certain way (besides dropping the Mesmers), but then again I'm obsessive about always having my heros runed/equipped. Pain Inverter destroys him. I usually just clear out the few destroyers on the way, then rush at him and take him out before he overwhelms the party.

Kunder · Feb 24, 2012, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Interrupting him constantly while using Pain Inverter to reflect 1000s of damage instantly is also a valid tactic

Wielder Of Magic · Feb 24, 2012, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Interrupting him constantly while using Pain Inverter to reflect 1000s of damage instantly is also a valid tactic

this.

1.any/me
2.arcane echo
3.pain inverter.
4.rupt.
5.pain inverter.
6. rupt.
7.profit.

mortenya · Feb 24, 2012, 10:32 PM // 22:32

kunder has it. you just need shelter and pain inverter and you kill him in 30 seconds.

shelter is just so your party doesn't instawipe.